Mike Grout
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| ‘Nam vets turn to
each other for aid
By RAY WYCHE Two Chadbourn area military veterans of Vietnam, both disabled from battlefield actions, have found comfort in each other as they bear the scars they suffered in their long ago battles in the faraway south Asian country. Mike Grout and Jimmy Martin met at the Whiteville Veterans of Foreign Wars post where both are members and became friends based on their similarities. Neither was drafted; each enlisted, Grout in the Navy and Martin in the Army, and both volunteered for what were probably the two most demanding and dangerous duties available. Both came home classed as physically unfit for military service, with shrapnel in their bodies and thoroughly doused with Agent Orange, the defoliant U. S. forces sprayed from the air to uncover the hiding places of the Viet Cong and which is blamed for long-lasting ill effects on those it touched, and with personality changes resulting from the horrors they had survived. Both managed to find work after their releases from the service, but both were forced to quit because their battered bodies could no longer tolerate even moderate physical demands. Now, both get about slowly and must depend on their walking canes. These days, they spend a lot of time together; they know what’s going on in each other’s mind when television or a movie depicts war actions similar to what they experienced. Such scenes revive bad memories and they turn away from them and to each other for support. Mike Grout was, as he puts it, “just an old farm boy” from Nebraska when he joined the Navy at age 19. Soon he was in Vietnam as a crewman on a Swift Boat, the Navy’s speedy river craft that sped along inland waters with machine guns blazing away at suspected Viet Cong positions on the banks. It was hot action and dangerous duty but Grout wanted more. He applied for and was accepted into SEALS (SEa, Air, Land), the Navy’s ultra-dangerous, ultra stealthy special operations unit that worked mostly behind enemy lines. Also called the Silent Service for the secrecy surrounding their activities, SEALS are famous for their death-defying underwater missions; they used false names and worked alone or in small groups. Only the psychologically and physically strongest were accepted for training, and only the best graduated. Grout survived the training that was designed to weed out the less-than–perfect and was assigned to a SEAL unit in southeast Asia. “I was doing silent service,” he says. “I can’t tell you where I’ve been.” The oath of secrecy is still in effect, he says. He can say that on a mission in enemy-held territory he was captured, despite his efforts to remain undetected. “I was in a rice paddy and I dug a hole in the paddy wall just big enough for my body. I can say I was underwater and breathing through a reed. I learned their (Vietcong) tricks. I was a loner.” His captors locked him in a bamboo cage and interrogated him for lengthy periods. Grout won’t talk about what happened in captivity except to say, “I didn’t tell them anything. They even tried drugs (truth serum) but it didn’t work on me.” The food his captors offered him “was not fit for human consumption,” he says, “but the rats and mice tasted wonderful.” About 10 days after his capture, Grout saw some fellow SEALS who were also prisoners. He had a special gun, broken down into components, hidden in his bloused pants leg, the one place on his body that the Viet Cong failed to search. He has little to say about his life as a prisoner of war. “I have bad memories when that comes up,” he says. He will say that he and four other prisoners managed to escape but reveals nothing about the details. “All I can tell you is that it was a bloody mess when we left. And somebody is in heaven.” Grout won’t say how or where he was wounded during the escape but 20 days later he had recovered enough to go on another secret mission. He was wounded for the second time. “That one sent me home—unfit for duty.” His wounds still bother him but it was exposure to Agent Orange that continues to cause more serious problems. “I got sprayed four times and it’s still there. I can tell you that. The doctor says my heart is like a sponge.” He is on the list for a heart transplant. The effect of Agent Orange is no stranger to Grout’s close friend and fellow Vietnam veteran, Jimmy Martin of Peacock Road near Chadbourn. Like Grout, Martin was not satisfied with merely being in the military; he wanted to go all the way so he volunteered for paratrooper training when he enlisted at age 17. “I volunteered. I wanted to be on the front line. I went in because I had an obligation to do something that was done for me in World War II,” he says. Martin was assigned to the 173rd Airborne Brigade, the only paratroop outfit to make a combat jump in Vietnam. The entire brigade jumped late one afternoon, landing in the jungle. “We were right on the landing zone and they were shooting at us but we didn’t take too many losses,” he says, although some troopers broke bones when they landed in treetops. It was on the ground that the 173rd found the going rough. “We played war like they (the Viet Cong) played war.” Like the enemy, Martin’s unit fought a hit-and-run type of war: strike the enemy hard and get out. Whenever his unit captured a village or strongpoint, he says, “We always left a regular deck of cards—with our unit insignia on it. We were proud of who we were.” He recalls one particularly bloody battle in which, he says, his unit “spent five days and five nights just to get to the top of a hill, only to give it back to them” when his outfit was ordered to be withdrawn. Martin says the 173rd was a young man’s outfit. “Our oldest man might have been 24, 25 years old. But we grew up fast.” The 173rd suffered 93 percent (counting replacement troops) casualties during the war, one of whom was Martin who was hit by shrapnel in both knees and who took two bullets in his left leg. “I lay around until the legs healed up and then caught more fragments” in a later action that ended his combat career. Martin spent a total of 15 years in the Army, getting out only when officials finally ruled him unfit for combat duty. “I was obsolete,” he says. Like Grout, Martin was exposed to Agent Orange and its effects are still with him. “You get pneumonia quicker and you get infections quicker,” he says. Grout agrees that Agent Orange has caused long-lasting problems. “I’ve got a heart with four holes in it, the doctors say. I’m on oxygen at night. There’s nothing we can do but suffer.” Despite the suffering he went through in Vietnam, Martin says he would do it again. “If it were not for my family and if I were able, I’d go to Iraq.” Once they got out of the military, both men became truck drivers. “I drove a truck for 27 years,” Grout says. “I had to get away from people. But in 1994, I had to give up everything,” he says, because of his failing health. Martin also worked in construction as long as he was able. “It got to where I was not able to climb ladders,” he says. Martin says while he was in Vietnam, he never thought about what he would do after the Army. “I never considered having a future. I expected to die over there.” Despite the enemy’s efforts and the ravages of Agent Orange, both men made it back home—shot up, hurting and sick—in sharp contrast to what they were when they marched off to war as young men. And now they have each other to lean upon, and they are thankful. |
To: leshigh@newsreporter.biz, claracartrette@newsreporter.biz
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:50:42 -0600
Subject: Mike Grout...never a POW/MIA in the Vietnam War
Reply-to: mmcgrath62@adelphia.net
CC: info@POWNETWORK.ORG, mmcgrath62@ADELPHIA.NET
get your paper his real service record, and she has the list of the reporters you might want to contact. Don't be embarrassed that your paper got
To: <leshigh@newsreporter.biz>, "POW Network" <info@pownetwork.org>,
"Naval Special Warfare Archive"
"Aven, Ephrayim J Mr CIV USSOCOM NSWCEN"
Subject: Gross Inaccuracies in your article of 16 Oct 06
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:05:42 -0500
To
the Managing Editor,
THE NEWS REPORTER
Dear
Mr. High,
A
number of military veterans with whom I have regular interaction, have
contacted me after reading your online article dated Monday, 16
October 2006 (http://www.whiteville.com/pages/2006WEBPAGES/OCTOBER2006/10.16.06/news4mon.html)
wherein your reporter, Mr. Ray Wyche,
described Mr. MIKE
GROUT of Whiteville, NC, as a former Navy SEAL, captured and held as a
POW by the VC in the Vietnam War (also claiming other SEALs were held
as POWs), questioned by the VC (including using drugs), successfully
escaped, returned to ‘friendly’ territory… and went on
subsequent ‘secret missions’. They
have all asked me the same question – “Could Mr. Grout have
possibly been a real Navy SEAL?” I’ve checked the SEAL database
– a document which is only held by a dozen or so individuals and
while not ‘classified’ is considered ‘sensitive’ information.
There is no one by the name GROUT listed among the nearly 11,000 men
who have served in the Naval Special Warfare community since the
earliest days of WWII.
The
article is replete with information and descriptions regarding the
Vietnam conflict in general and POWs which are straight out of
Hollywood – specifically they are straight from the screenplays of
the Sylvester Stallone “Rambo” movies (digging a hole in a rice
paddy bank, hiding underwater, breathing through a reed, and having a
special ‘break apart’ gun), and the movie “The Deer Hunter”
(among others).
FIRST:
Mr. Michael “Mike” Grout is not now and never was a US Navy SEAL
or US Navy UDT “Frogman”. He never completed Basic Underwater
Demolition/SEAL training – a course which cannot be bypassed under
any circumstances (there are no ‘secret’ classes). This FACT may
be verified by contacting an official Navy source – Mr. Ephrayim
Aven, Information Manager,
SECOND:
There have never (NEVER!) been any US Navy SEALs or US Navy UDT
“Frogmen” captured, detained, or held as prisoners of war…
NEVER! You may verify this fact with the POW Network (info@pownetwork.org)
and with the Naval Special Warfare Archives (archives@frii.com).
THIRD:
The number of US military combatants who successfully escaped from POW
captivity during the Vietnam War can be counted on one hand (with
fingers left over). There was only one “accidental” rescue of an
American POW during the Vietnam War. No intentional rescue missions
were ever successfully carried out. No one who was ever held as a POW
in
FOURTH:
In the book STOLEN VALOR by B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley there is a
complete listing of all (ALL) Vietnam War US Military POWs Returned
Alive. That listing is provided as Appendix V at the end of the book
and contains some 600+ names. Mr. Mike/Michael Grout is NOT listed in
that Appendix.
Sadly
there are no laws which make it illegal to offer such gross, bogus
verbal claims to beer-drinking buddies, VFW comrades, potential dates
in a bar, or eager news reporters. However, if Mr. Grout has made a
practice of claiming to be a former Navy SEAL and POW, and he has been
imprudent enough to make those claims in writing on his resume and/or
job application, he may be liable for termination by his employer.
Most employers take a very dim view of someone offering any false
claims or “creative writing” exercises on resumes and/or job
applications in order to positively influence the prospects of their
being hired. Most specifically he would be in violation of federal law
if he has altered any formal/official documentation in order to
substantiate his claims of being a SEAL or POW.
FIFTH:
The US Navy SEAL Teams have never (NEVER) been known as “The Silent
Service”. That appellation has always been used to describe the
portion of the US Navy associated with the submarine service; US Navy
Submariners are proud to proclaim their membership in “The Silent
Service” and a proud historical heritage that dates back to the
Civil War.
SIXTH:
While there are very, very rare occasions when a SEAL must act alone,
the normal operational tactics involve TEAMWORK. Mr. Grout’s claims
of being “a loner” are directly at odds with the realities of duty
in the US Navy SEAL Teams.
When
members of the Naval Special Warfare community meet others who claim
similar service, but whom they do not recognize, there is a
conversational exchange of information that establishes the bona fides
of each to the other. There is no set formula for this exchange, nor
for the information that is exchanged, but it ALWAYS takes place, and
the REAL Naval Special Warfare members can ALWAYS spot a phony as a
result of this exchange. I urge you (or those who may have contact
with him) to ask Mr. Tschudin three
questions:
(1)
What was his BUD/S class number?
(2)
Where did his training take place?
(3)
When did he graduate from Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL (BUD/S)
training?
The
answers to those three questions may then be compared to hard, firm,
comprehensive documentation to absolutely verify his claims. There are
many other questions which could be asked to further establish the
level of veracity or untruth regarding his claims, but those three
questions are absolutes; the answers are totally UNCLASSIFIED, and
every real SEAL will gladly provide that substantiating information
upon request. If Mr. Grout offers you any specifics which he claims
answers these questions (or if he offers reasons why he cannot answer
them), I would be very interested in learning about it. Again, I
assure you that his name does NOT appear in the comprehensive list of
SEAL training graduates.
Your
paper may want to consider the idea of filing a Standard Form 180
(SF180) under the Freedom Of Information Act with the National
Personnel Records Center in St. Louis,
Sadly
this scenario is repeated quite often in our culture; a newspaper
reporter preparing a human interest story learns that someone ‘was a
Navy SEAL’. Because of the current interest in almost anything
related to the military, the reporter is quick to obtain all the
details and get them into print – military stories sell papers, and
Navy SEAL stories are particularly popular. In almost every case these
stories are given a high profile and boldly presented to the public.
Yours appeared on the front page of your publication. Yet when the
newspaper is subsequently notified (by myself or by others) that they
have popularized an imposter, they either fail to print a correction
or retraction of any sort, or they offer only a very small
‘correction’ hidden somewhere among the want ads, deep within the
‘bird cage lining’ section of the paper. While the paper gets to
claim they have corrected their error, the public is generally left
with the impression that the imposter is ‘the real thing’, and the
imposter’s reputation is given ‘credibility’ by the newspaper
article itself. He then cuts it out, frames it, and has yet one more
‘tidbit’ on his wall to ‘prove’ he was a SEAL… and the lies
get bigger.
Meanwhile…
the integrity and honor of the men who truly earned the right to the
title “US NAVY SEAL” are degraded. The reputation of the US Navy
SEAL Teams was paid for by the blood and sacrifice of men known as
“the quiet professionals”… men who are generally loath to
discuss their actions, and long after their military service are still
more comfortable in the shadows than in the limelight. Brazen
imposters who falsely claim a part of that hard-earned reputation
tread heavily upon the graves of our fallen comrades. Those who
undertake to impersonate US Navy SEALs, for whatever purpose, are a
disgraceful insult to every man and woman who ever served honorably in
any branch of America’s armed forces, no matter how elite or mundane
their military tasking. The honor of all veterans is degraded by such
false claims.
I
strongly urge you to revisit Mr. Grout and learn the truth about his
military credentials – ask him those three questions I mentioned
above – and then clearly print the TRUTH in your paper; give that
story the same degree of importance and placement as the one in which
you reported his false claims. The story about a man’s false claims
can be as big, or bigger, than the original story. I suggest that you
to check the online archives of the SACRAMENTO BEE for an article (20
Jan 2002) entitled BRAVE HEARTH, by staff writer Don Bosley.
The subject of the story, a man named Justin McCauley, made claims of
being a SEAL as a part of a human interest story. When they were
informed about the truth of the matter (he was an imposter), the
SACRAMENTO BEE made it headline news. On 7 Feb 2002 staff writer Bosley
authored a detailed article about how they were misled entitled
“Navy Discredits Sailor's Story of Being a SEAL in
During
the entire duration of the Vietnam War (1962-1972) the west coast UDT/SEAL
Teams lost 16 men to direct action with the enemy (KIA). During that
same period of time there were 42 members of the west coast Teams who
died as a result of accidents – mostly during training. There is a
reason that SEALs have such an astounding reputation – the training
is arguably the toughest in the world and very (VERY) few men
successfully complete that program. It is literally twice as deadly to
TRAIN to be a SEAL as it is to be a SEAL in combat! Those 16 men who
died in combat, and those 42 men who died
while preparing for combat were my comrades. I consider it an
egregious insult for someone who didn’t earn those credentials to
step forward and brazenly claim to be of the same caliber as my fallen
brothers-in-arms. Thank you for taking to time to read this; I am
certain that you will understand this to be a point of deep personal
concern to me.
If
I can be of any assistance to you in this matter, please feel free to
contact me at your convenience.
Very
respectfully,
Steve
Robinson
USN 1970-1978
SEAL Team ONE
Inshore Undersea Warfare Group ONE
UDT-SEAL Association
Special Operations Association
POW Network Advisory Board
Naval
Special Warfare Archives - SOF
Analyst/Contributing Journalist
Disabled
American Veterans - Life Member
FORMER
Special Investigator - SEAL Authentication Team
Author of the book NO
GUTS, NO GLORY - Unmasking Navy SEAL Imposters