65.
Hubbard declares: Hubbard: Well, flying is something
I've wanted to do ever since
I was a little boy. I wanted
to fly aircraft, that's why I
joined the Air Force.
X: Then your love for flying led
you to the armed forces?
Hubbard: Yes, Sir.
X: And what you are flying for
in the armed forces, for
which aims, that is actually
of little interest to you?
Hubbard: Well, I, ah, definitely felt
that by being in the military
service, I was fulfilling an
obligation to my country, ah,
I guess, you would say a
patriotic service to protect
and defend my country if I
was ever called upon, but
primarily my interest in
flying was the reason I was
in the service.
X: What are your main interests, LieutenantHubbard? Do you have special hobbies?
Hubbard: Yes, sir. I enjoy
photography, which
just happens to be one of my
favorite hobbies. I just sort
of picked it up well, when I
started flying reconnaissance
and I got interested in
photography. Primarily I
guess you'd say that's my
biggest hobby as well as
flying. And athletics.
66.
Torkelson declares: X: Lieutenant Torkelson, have
you ever occupied yourself
with political affairs?
Torkelson: Ah no, not particularly. I
was interested in,
ah, the politics of my
country, but I was not,
ah, ah, so to speak, an avid
supporter of either party. I
voted every time and I tried
to keep informed on the
government policies
and different platforms and
doctrines of both
our political parties. I
wasn't what you'd call a real
active politician
67.
Ringsdorf declares: X: Lieutenant Ringsdorf, do you
have political interests?
Ringsdorf: I haven't, no, sir. More
interested in other
things. Having majored in
chemistry. In college I
never had any political
science courses and
so forth. So I never really
got interested in...
X: Allow me to conclude that we
feel you are a highly
specialised, but rather
narrowly specialised person.
Ringsdorf: How do you mean that? I don't
understand that statement.
X: Your knowledge as a pilot is
certainly excellent, but you
are only slightly interested
in the social mechanism you
are active for. With a man
such as yourself every war,
even the most contemptible,
is possible.
68. Duart declares: X: Major Duart, which personal
ideals or persons have
influenced your life?
Duart: I assume that you are
speaking of military people,
ah, military leaders?
X: It is possible that your
ideals were, above all,
members of the military, but
I mean in the general sense
of the word.
Duart: I am at a loss for words. Ah,
ah, all I can think of is,
several air aces of many
previous wars including some
from your country, such as
Richthofen and Hans Nach from
World War Two, I read his
books and I was impressed by
their ability in the air war
and, of course, if we come
beyond World War Two, we
would have to go through the
Korean War, there were some
air aces which I will not say
that I know them real well,
but I have met some. That was
strictly a clean- out air
battle that I am talking
about, it was man aga inst
man, and I was influenced by
them.
X: You certainly know that the
two best-known
69.
Photo montage: air aces of the Korean War are
Risner and Kassler sharing your fate.
69a.
Duart declares: They more or less flew into
the Hilton Hanoi just as you
did.
Duart: I, the reason that I am here
is because of my enjoyment of
flying. If I had not enjoyed
it to the extent that I do I
would have found another form
of employment many years ago.
70. Airplane cockpit Commentary: The love flying, then, is
what brought the Major to
Vietnam.
71.
Bombs dropping Bombs fall, explosions
resound and Major
Duart discovers in this
inferno his own private and
personal pleasure his love of
flying.
[#72 & part of #73 were not in original document]
Risner: Ah, this has been true, very
much so, I'm afraid. Ah, as
you may know, the American
people and the American
servicemen as well, we have
been raised, you might say,
to depend pretty much solely
upon the decisions of others
and to depend upon our
government that we have
elected, and for that reason
I myself and maybe the case
in many other cases have not
interested ourselves in
political or diplomatic
relations, international
issues as we should have. Of
course, we will do much more
so in the future, I assure
you.
74.
Photos: of Risner Commentary: Based on Squadron Commander
Pan past Ringsdorf, Risner and others who were
Torkelson, Duart, who were questioned it is not
Alvarez difficult to characterise the
American pilot.
75.
Scenes from Da Nang Da Nang air base in South
air base Vietnam. This is the base of
the 366th Tactical Fighter
Squadron, whose members call
themselves -
76.
Insert: the "Gun-Fighters".
"Gunfighters"
77.
Da Nang Author's The US pilots who up to now
air base Commentary: know about the Hilton Hanoi
only through hearsay also
prove to have a shocking
measure of indifference. We
are in a position to prove
our point by four short talks
with American pilots
interviewed for us in Da
Nang.
78.
Major McKeller Commentary: This is Major Donald McKeller
79. Major Olds Major Ernest Olds -
80. Major Wright Major Wright -
81.
Lt. Col. Haeffner and their flight commander
Lieutenant Colonel Fred
Haeffner.
82.
Major Wright X: What motive do you have for
your job here
in South East Asia.
Wright: I'm Air Force.
X: Then not because of political
motives?
Wright: I go where I'm sent, yes. I'm
pretty well career.
83.
Major Mckeller X: What are your reasons for
being here in
Vietnam; political motives?
McKeller: It uh, (cleared throat). My
reason is I am a military man
and I this is my job, to uh,
come and fight wars.
84.
Major Olds X: Major Olds, how many missions
have you flown over North
Vietnam?
Olds: Well, this is my first one.
X: Were you afraid you wouldn't
return? Were you attacked by
the Vietnamese?
Olds: Yes, they did.
X: Why are you flying here? What
were you looking for in North
Vietnam?
Olds: What was our target?
X: What you were looking for in
North Vietnam
Olds: Oh we dropped bombs.
X: On which targets?
Olds: We had a road intersection
and a truck park.
84a.
Bomb explosion X: Do you like this new kind of
work?
Olds: Yes we did.
X: Can you tell us why? 85. Major Olds Olds: I like flying very much.
X: You enjoy flying, but you
drop bombs
Olds: Well I think that first of all
it's my job, and secondly we'd
like to help to stop communism
in South East Asia, and for
the, another thing, I think we
uh, would like to help the
South Vietnamese uh, find some
self-determination for
themselves.
86.
Lt. Col. Haeffner X: Colonel Haeffner, how do you
like your job?
Haeffner: Oh, my job as a squadron
commander is outstandings.
It's uh, the best job in the
air force. I, I guess every
fighter pilot looks forward to
being a squadron commander of
a fighter squadron some day in
this life. I've, uh, I really
enjoy it, it's very
adventurous, exciting job.
86a.
Bomb explosion X: What do you do after
returning from an
"exciting job", after such
a mission?
Haeffner: Oh, uh, we uh, a normal
mission we just come back
and, and debrief and, uh, sit
down and talk about it and
have a few drinks and enjoy
ourself. But after you got
your 100th mission, which is
a tour over here, a hundred
missions over North Vietnam,
we usually have a
rip-snorting uh, party. Uh,
I guess you could call it
equivalent to one of the
German Fasching parties.
87.
Phantom Commentary: Following his humorous
takes off comment, Haeffner again flies
toward the North. In his
"Phantom", then, sits a man
who likes to have a few
drinks, is pleased with the
coming air-pirate spree, and
generally has a lot of fun
in Vietnam.
88.
Lt. Col. Haeffner Haeffner: Well, on today's mission we
had, we had, uh, 20
millimeter cannon on the
centerline and we were
carrying six 500 lb bombs.
X: And you left all of your
bombs in the North?
Haeffner: Uh, yes we dropped all of our
ordnance and expended most of
our 20 millimeter cannon
ammunition.
89.
Pan over the group Major Wright here, his
backseater, they went up and
cut a whole bunch of barges
in two up off the coast of
North Vietnam and my
backseater, Lt. French and
myself we expended our 20mm
cannon on some gun positions
along the shore
90.
Plane is hit For which we took a hit, by
the way.
91.
Lt. Col. Haeffner Haeffner: I've flown uh, 99 missions
North, as has Lt. French.
He's got 99. And uh,
Lieutenant Wright's got 99.
And uh, Major Wright, excuse
me. And Lieutenant Bittner is
a new boy as we call them
with about 10 missions up
North.
X: And when you have a hundred,
Colonel, what comes then?
Haeffner: Well, when we get a hundred
missions we have quite a
parade back here. Day after
tomorrow I hope to have a big
parade back here for the
three of us. We get hosed
down with a fire truck and
uh, we're paraded all over
the base continuously being
hosed by a fire truck and
some of our commrades, and
uh, we have a big bottle of
champagne that we get to
drink between the three of
us. And then we'll go to the
club and have a good old
Fasching party.
92.
Wounded and Commentary: They didn't make it for their
captured US pilots jubilee. The 100 tour-prank
lies far distant. The
Vietnamese air defences gave
these air pirates a cold
shower.
93.
Major Wright X: Major Wright, how long do you
think the North Vietnamese
will be able to resist? Do
you have a definite opinion
on this?
Wright: None, really. It's sort of a
loaded question. A lot of
people smarter than I am
can't answer it. I'm certain
I can't.
94.
Major McKeller McKeller: I really have no idea. It uh,
may be very short and it may
be again very long.
95.
Major Olds Olds: I think that's a very
difficult question to
answer.
96.
Lt. Col. Haeffner Haeffner: Well (sign) that's kinda hard
to say. I guess they'll
continue to resist until
their bosses, or whoever
their bosses are, decide it's
time to quit and we've given
them enough punishment.
97.
Photos of the Author's Four Thunderchiefs. Three
4 pilots in Da Nang Commentary: majors and a Lt. Colonel.
They enjoy flying, act like
"hot-shot Charleys" and call
themselves the "Gun
Fighters".
98.
Squadron sign Their squadron commander is
Colonel Robert W. Malloy -
99.
Malloy in air craft now we will get to meet him
too. . .
100. Rescue operation, - Music - Malloy in helicopter
101. Squadron sign Commentary: "Welcome in Da Nang" in Da Nang
102.
Colonel in helicopter The Colonel will make it back
to his base again - not in
this "Phantom", but in a
rescue helicopter.
103. US troops landing - Music -
104.
Risner declares: X: Commander, I wish to ask you
a strictly political
question, although I know
that as a military man you do
not feel competent. How do
you explain the presence of
so many American troops in
South Vietnam? What are the
reasons for this?
Risner: Ah, I don't know the exact
number of course, of troops
in South Vietnam and I
understand it changes
frequently. I really can't
myself explain the presence
of the US troops in South
Vietnam, as you said, as a
military man, they are all
there, I might imagine,
brought there for the purpose
which we were told, that we
were coming to fight for
South Vietnam.
105.
Americans Commentary: Why have more than 500,000
disembark Americans with a gigantic
arsenal of war material come
to this country -
106.
Risner shown an American Colonel does not
know.
107.
Hughes declares: But perhaps American
Lieutenant Colonel
Hughes knows?
Hughes: I must confess, no. As I
mentioned earlier, I was an
engineer, deeply engrossed in
my work, having just
graduated from the electrical
engineering school, and the
requirement for pilots has
become rather heavy, and so I
was, with short notice,
withdrawn from that job and
processed rather rapidly
through training to come over
here, none of which was
training on the political
aspect or on the actual
understanding of the people.
108.
Shively declares: X: Will you please be so kind and
attempt to explain to me the
presence of American
troops and your personal
presence.
Shively: Ah, sir, ah, to answer the
first part of your question:
My understanding was that the
United States came to Vietnam
at the request of a friendly
government again to help them
against outside intervention.
X: You have just stated that the
government of
the United States and South
Vietnam are on
friendly terms. That is true,
but another questio
n is the realtionship between
the government of South
Vietnam and its own people. I
want to read to you a quote by
a man, none other than the
former President of the United
States, Dwight D. Eisenhower,
who wrote the following in his
book "Mandate for change": "I
have spoken to no Indo-China
expert who was not of the same
opinion as I, that if an
election was held, 80% of the
population would vote for the
Communist to Chi Minh". And
now please consider in which
manner this estimation of
Eisenhower conforms with the
question of self-determination
and also with the presence of
American troops in South
Vietnam.
Shively: Yes, sir. From that statement
it's kinda hard for me to
justify the United States
coming in at the request of
the majority of the South
Vietnamese people. I really
don't know what else I can
say. You have kind of got me
at an impasse. That statement
and the reasons that we are
given that the United States
came in at the request of a
friendly government that had
the support of the people,
they seem to be opposed to one
another.
109.
Thorsness declares: X: Which thoughts or ideas do
you get from the name Dien
Bien Phu?
Thorsness: Dien Bien Phy? Yes, sir,
that's, that's not the town
where I bailed out but when I
hear of Dien Bien Phu, of
course, that's the famous,
ah, fall, fall of the French,
ah, colonialism or the big
battle, the final battle
between the North Vietnamese
people and the French people,
in which the French in fact
did surrender after that
battle. It was a very famous
battle for....
X: That means the "famous battle
of the French" is perhaps not
exactly appropriate since it
was in reality the famous
battle of the Vietnamese,
this victory of Dien Bien
Phu.
Thorsness: Yes, it was the telling blow,
the straw that broke the
camel's back, as I understand
it, for the French and the
Vietnamese, ah, attained, ah,
their victory, their final
victory over the French at
that time.
110.
Khe San, Commentary: The American military base of
burning planes Khe San has been under attack
by the South Vietnamese
National Liberation Front for
many weeks. US President
Johnson barked at his
Generals that he didn't want
any damned Dien Bien Phu.
111.
Photos: But Johnson is already a
US President defeated man, militarily and
Johnson politically. He has already
met his personal Dien Bien
Phu in Vietnam.
112.
Montage: Scenes from the North.
Captured US pilots
in DR Vietnam, Scenes from the South.
wounded GI's in South
Vietnam
alternating - Music -
113.
Torkelson declares: X: It is a coincidence that we
are holding our talk today on
the anniversary of the
Declaration of Independence
of the United States of
America. Did you know that
the Declaration of
Independence of the
Democratic Republic of
Vietnam begins with the same
words as the Declaration of
Independence of the United
States of North America?
Torkelson: Ah no, I didn't know that.
X: Then you know it now. The
only difference that exists
between both countries is
that Vietnam is a small
country in comparison,
and the USA is the largest
capitalist country of the
world. Do you think that this
gives it the right to deny
the small countries their
independence and right to
self-determination, to hinder
this through the force of
arms?
Torkelson: Ah, well in this particular
case the United States came
into this country upon
request of the government,
ah, of the South Vietnamese
people, and it is part of our
foreign policy to stop the
spread of communism in this
part of our foreign policy,
and anything that would
threaten the security of the
United States either at the
present or in the future...
114.
Americans in Commentary: So according to this the
South Vietnam Americans came to this
country at the request of the
people of South Vietnam, to
stop the further development
and progress of communism.
115.
Dead NLF Author's Those lying here in their own
fighters Commentary: blood on South Vietnamese
soil. The program of the NLF,
for which they fought, is not
a communist program: it calls
for elimination of the
corrupt Saigon regime and the
withdrawal of their
accomplices so that in South
Vietnam a policy of peace an
neutrality, democratic
domestic development,
increase in productivity, and
work and bread for everyone
would be possible. And for
this goal they were shot down
by American bullets; and
that means in the language of
imperialism: struggle against
communism.
116.
Abbott declares: Abbott: Our country thought, at the
time, it was essential to
intervene in the country
117.
Captured to stop the continuation
NFL soldier of the widespread, ah, of
communism,
118.
Abbott declares: as our country prefers it
down in South Vietnam you
have the ideology of, let's
say, the Ky regime.
119.
Ky Commentary: This is General Ky, after
whom the Saigon regime is
named. His claim to fame:
"South Vietnam needs two
Hitlers if it is going to be
freed."
120.
Photo series: Here an NLF fighter is being
NFL soldier led away by General Ky's
captured and murdered parachutists and this beast,
is General Loan, who is South
Vietnam's Chief of Police,
shoots the prisoner in broad
daylight, as if he were doing
a self evident thing. This
cold-blooded murderer also
needs the support of his
American partner, and they
call the fight against the
people: "the fight against
communism".
121.
Duart declares: X: What is your personal attitude
towards Communism?
Duart: My personal attitude towards
communism, it's more or less a
military attitude in that I am
in the military of a
capitalist country and we are
opposed to communism, and I
therefore believe that my
orders, whereever they may
assign me to help prevent the
spread of it, are correct.
122.
Montage: Commentary: Major Duart of course has
Vietnamese missile been taught by the DRV air
transport, US plane defence forces that an
in flight, missile takes American cannot practice his
off, plane shot down "military attitude" against
communism and go unpunished:
they shot down the intruder.
123.
Anti-aircraft Author's And the air defence forces of
missiles Commentary: the German of GDR People's
Army Democratic Republic are
also prepared for in position
and being the event, should
militant anti-communists
transported stretch out their
fingers toward our socialist
homeland, before whose
Western frontier Major Duart
was also stationed for years
as a NATO pilot, before he
went to the Vietnam theatre
of war.
124.
Duart declares: Duart: I even was sent direct from
West Germany, an assignment
which I had then been on for
two and a half years and had
not even been in the Un ited
States since 1964 and due to
the type of aircraft that I
was flying early in 1965 it
became obvious that everyone
that flew the aircraft would
eventually get a tour in
South East Asia. And the type
of aircraft being the F 105
the tour meant that our
missions would all be over
the DRV. This aircraft is not
used in South Vietnam. And we
all know this and it was just
a matter of waiting until the
orders came, which they did
in the end, and we all moved
our families to the States,
we were given adequate leave
to find a place for them to
be comfortable and then we
were moved on to South East
Asia. And this has been
obvious to all F 105 pilots,
as I say since 1965, that we
would end up here.
X: Where were you stationed
during your two and a half
years in West Germany?
Duart: During my tour in Germany I
was stationed at Spangdahlen
air base which is in the
Eifel Mountains, near
Wittlich, West Germany.
X: And what was your duty there?
Duart: My duty was jet-fighter pilot
in the squadron of F 105a.
X: Was your squadron integrated
in the NATO command?
Duart: My squadron as well as the
entire wing was in the NATO
complex, yes.
125.
Hubbard declares: X: Was West Germany one of the
20 countries of the world you
visited as an American
world policeman?
Hubbard: Yes, sir.
X: What impressions do you have
of West Germany; what did you
see there? Which cities did
you get to know?
Hubbard: In Wiesbaden I visited, I
don't even really remember
what it is, but it's a very
large Russian orthodox church
or something that sets upon a
hill above the city, has big
gold spires, I have a very
beautiful picture, I got of
that, and I just visited a
very good place to eat and
everything in Germany a lot
of the castles and things
like that.
X: Do you still remember a
couple of German words, or
maybe a song that you heard
there?
Hubbard: Ah, the only German I learnt,
I don't remember much of it
now, is just to say yes and
no and thank you and things
like that. And I learnt to
read enough things on the
menu, that I could eat.
X: But besides all of those
things you also still
remember one or the other
military bases in West
Germany?
Hubbard: Well, nothing except the
airbases. The airbases where
I .. at Ramstein and
Wiesbaden and places where I
knew people who were
stationed or something.
X: Ramstein - that is one ot
the largest NATO air bases in
West Germany.
Hubbard: Yes, sir.
X: From there you certainly took
a trip to Kaiserslautern?
Hubbard: Yes, sir, I bought some
Danish teak furniture at
Kaiserslautern from Anton
Down and well, I never spent
that much time, I went to
Landstuhl - there are some
very nice restaurants in
Landstuhl, a couple of times.
126.
Risner declares: X: Colonel Risner, during your
years of military
service you were also
stationed in West Germany for
some time?
Risner: Yes.
X: Where were you stationed
there?
Risner: It was at Hamm, Hamm,
Germany.
X: What was your duty there?
Risner: I was flying a fighter there.
I was just part of
the Force. I went there in
1953, and returned to the
United States, part of the
NATO Forces.
X: You have told us that you
came here to South East Asia
because you were ordered to
do so. What was the reason
you went to West Germany? Did
you give any thought to the
political background at the
time.
Risner: No, at the time we went over
as part of the NATO force, in
other words, I don't exactly
know the composition of NATO,
nor its exact purpose, we
were just, I was just a
fighter pilot and we just
went over and had good
enjoyed the flying and we
enjoyed the country and the
people.
X: Can you still remember a few
German words from this
period?
Risner: I remember a few like
"Einbahnstrasse", "wo ist der
Behnhof", a few things that
we needed to know in order to
make our way about, but only
a few words.
127.
Thorsness declares: X: Major Thorsness, during your
military service you were
stationed for three years in
West Germany?
Thorsness: Yes, sir.
X: Which German words do you
still remember from the time
of your duty there?
Thorsness: Fraulein and "good morning"
you'd know and a few basic
words like how do you do,
dies ist schone Wetter and
just greeting words words
you'd say to someone when you
meet them in the street: how
are you and wie geht es
Ihnen, just the basic words
that you walk into a store.
I used to know more words
than I know now because I've
forgotten, because now -
wieviel - and things like
this, but I could go into a
store and ask the price, I've
forgotten, I didn't, I never
know the German language
fluently.
X: Where were you stationed in
West Germany?
Thorsness: I was at Spangdahlen
Flugplatz.
X: That is a large NATO air base
in the Eifel, is it not?
Thorsness: Yes, sir, it's in the Eifel,
near Wittlich and Trier.
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