360. Photo: Victim - Music -
361.
Hughes declares: Hughes: To my wife and my two
children: I regret having
departed, ah, the United
States. I regret taking part
in this, in this conflict. I
am not certain that my coming
here was totally worthwhile
venture.
362.
Photo: Victim - Music -
363.
Thorsness declares: Thorsness: I appreciate the opportunity
and I guess the words I would
say are to to keep faith and
pray in God... and that some
day, in the not too far
future hopefully we will be
united, re-united, an, and
everything will in the end
turn out fine and life will
be fuller and richer for any
experience you have and I
think that includes being a
prisoner-of-war. There is
something to be gained from
everything. And so hopefully
some day the entire family,
not only me, but all
prisoners, will be re-united
with their wives, their
mothers, fathers, their loved
ones.
364.
Photo: Victim - Music -
365.
Duart delcares: X: Major Duart, we wish to give
you the opportunity to send
personal words of greeting to
you family, your wife and
your children.
Duart: If you don't mind, I'd prefer
not to. I'm afraid that it
would be too much for me.
Author's Major Duart could not. It
Commentary: would be, he feared, too much
for him. What are we
experiencing here? A moment
of truth? A powerful invasion
of realilty in the mind of a
human being? Had he never
thought that his "job" must
sooner or later lead him to a
personal catastrophe?
366.
Duart's hands with Did he not just tell us that
fragment of cluster this fragment of a cluster
bomb bomb had not exploded
"effectively"?
367.
Shot of Duart We will be frank: we do not
feel that the emotion of the
Major is particularly
"effective", for the number
of victims of the cluster
bomb droppers would be much
greater -
368.
Vietnamese women If these people did not do
weave straw hats everything in their power to
defend themselves - and be
it only that up and down the
country these wide-brimmed
straw hats are being woven to
protect what is most precious
- the children.
369.
Children with straw hat - Music -
370.
Risner delcares: X: I wish to hand you something.
Plese examine this hat and
let us know why you think, or
for which purpose, it is worn
here in the Democrataic
Republic of Vietnam. Also
examine the size of it.
Risner: It's, It's very heavy, very
heavy and thick. I can think
of no reason. I don't think
the sun gets that hot and I
don't know whether it's
made for rain or what. I
don't know. I don't think I
have ever seen one like that.
It looks like maybe a Spanish
hat.
371.
Children with straw X: These hats are worn here by
hats on their way to school Vietnamese children on their
way to school or to the
kindergarten as protection
against the steel pellets in
the CBU bombs. Many thousands
of children have been killed
or severely injured by this
weapon of the US Air Force.
372.
Risner declares: X: I wish to ask you, Colonel
Risner, whether you would
ever like to see your sone,
your youngest son, have to
wear a hat such as this?
Risner: No, I pray that this will
never happen.
373.
Hughes declares: Hughes: I, I wouldn't suspect
children to wear a hat quite
this heavy, no.
374.
Children with straw hats X: The hat that you have there
in your lap is worn by
children of the Democratic
Republic of Vietnam on their
way to school, on their way
to kindergarten and when they
are playing, in order to
protect them for the effects
of the CBU bomb. It is a
protective hat. How does this
conform with your statement
that the CBU bombs are used
above all to suppress flak?
375.
Hughes declares: Hughes: The only answer I have is
that in the use of the CBU,
ah, apparentlyl it is not
hitting its target in every
case,
376.
Children in air raid shelters and, as a result, the people
of the Democratic Republic of
Vietnam have had to take
measures to protect their,
377.
Hughes declares: ah, their populace from these
ill-pointed bombs.
378.
Thorsness declares: Thorsness: A straw hat.
X: Yes. Do you think its purpose
is sun protection? Test its
strength.
Thorsness: Well, I'd assume it's for sun
or rain or some of the
elements, yes, sir.
X: Don't you think thinner
material would be
used for a sun hat?
379.
Child with protective hat It's not easy to wear such a
heavy hat on your head.
380.
Thorsness declares: Thorsness: Ah, a thinner material would
do; maybe it's for rain, I
don't know, sir, it is
thicker than what you need
for pure sun protection. I
don't know much about straw
hats.
X: Do you see any connection
between this hat and the
other thing you now have in
your hand?
Thorsness: No, no direct connection, no
direct relationship, no, sir.
X: But you know what that is in
your left hand?
Thorsness: It's, ah, it must be a
portion of a bomb, a
piece of shrapnel out of a
bomb. Evidently
you're inferring that -
381.
Child with straw hat the thickness of the hat must
be designed to serve as
protection from a piece of
shrapnel out of a bomb or
some such things.
382.
Thorsness X: Yes, that's exactly it. In
your left hand is part of a
CBU bomb you dropped here,
and in your right hand is a
straw hat,
383.
Children with straw hat worn by Vietnamese children
as protection against these
bombs.
384.
Thorsness declares: Thorsness: I see.
385.
Abbott declares: X: It's too small for you, isn't
it? Who do you think would
wear a hat like this, of this
size?
Abbott: Maybe a gunner. Perhaps small
children.
386.
Vietnamese children in X: Do you mean that little the
street children here in the
Democratic Republic of
Vietnam man anti-aircraft
positions?
387.
Abbott declares: Abbott: No, but I think a boy of 13
or 14 could. But whether he,
this would fit his head or
not, I do now know.
388.
Shively declares: Shively: Sir, it seems to be a very
thick hat, a small hat,
perhaps a child's hat.
X: Try to put it on. It is too
small for your, isn't it.
Shively: Yes, sir; yes, sir.
X: You're quite right. Hats of
this type are worn by
children. Now test the
strength of the material.
Shively: Yes, sir, yes, sir. It's
very solid.
X Do you think any one would
wear a hat like this for
protection against the sun?
Shively: Ah, no sir. I think it is
much too heavy to
wear against the sun, sir.
X: Why do you think it's worn
then?
Shively: Sir, it's probably worn as
protection against debris of
perhaps the steel-pellet
bomb, or debris from
buildings as they blow up,
things like this, things
falling through the air.
X: Lieutenant Shively, we have
the impression that you have
been open and honestly
expressed your mind during
our talk, and that you did
not make any bones about it.
It is really so difficult to
recognise the whole truth
about the CBU bombs -
389.
Vietnamese mother with I mean that they are also
child on arm dropped on civilians?
390.
Shively declares: Shively: Sir, it's very possible and
probably, very probable in
very populated areas where
some of our targets are
located that the bomb the CBU
bombs, which have a pretty
wide area, as you can
imagine, with so many pellets
coming o ut and being
dispersed in the air that
they cover quite a large
area, and I'm, I'm sure that
probably they fall in, ah,
areas inhabited by the
people.
X: Then you have no illusions
about the fact that these
bombs hit other than military
targets?
Shively: Sir, I know that many people
are killed when we drop bombs
up here, yes, sir.
X: I will now ask you a very
precise question, Lieutenant
Shively. If you had to remain
in custody just one hour for
each civilian, for each
woman, for each child, for
each elderly person, who has
already been hit here in
North Vietnam by the CBU
bomb, do you think your life,
which is still very young,
would be long enough to serve
this term?
Shively: Probably not, sir. No, sir. 391. Wounded child in - Music - in hospital
392. Pan to cluster bomb on bed-side table
393. Pilots hold fragments of cluster bomb, credit titles move in:
PILOTEN IM PYJAMA
3 DER JOB
Ein Film van Heynowski & Scheumann
Kamera: Hans E. Leupold
Gerhard Munch
Peter Hellmich
Fotos: Thomas Billhardt
Montage: Traute Wischnewski
Spezialaufnahmen: Horst Donth
Redaktion: Gert Prokop
Peter Petersen
Sprecher: Herwart Grosse
Dolmetscher: Perry Friedman
Ubersetzung aus dem Amerikanischen:
Dr. Gunter Walch
Dr. Ernst Adler
Billy Mullies
Synchronisation: Ernst Dahle
Wolfgang Kruger
Ton: Hans-Jurgen Mittag
Musik: Reiner Bredemeyer
Produktionsleitung: Walter Martsch-Jochen Stoff
IM AUFTRAGE DES DEUTSCHEN FEROSHEH-
FUNKS HORGESTELLT IM DEFA-STUDIO
FUR WOCHENSCHAU UND DOKUMENTARFIL?E
UND IM DEFA-STUDIO FUR SYNCHRONISATION
P I L O T S I N P Y J A M A S
Part 4
The Thunderchiefs
Heynowski & Scheumann
1.
Printed title THE PRODUCERS OF THIS FILM
EXTEND PARTICULAR THANKS TO
THE COMRADES OF THE
VIETNAMESE PEOPLE'S ARMY AND
THE FILM STUDIOS IN HANOI FOR
THEIR COMRADELY ASSISTANCE!
2. & 3.
Printed title THE QUESTIONS IN THE
INTERVIEWS WITH THE US AIR
FORCE OFFICERS
WERE ASKED IN GERMAN AND
TRANSLATED SIMULTANEOULY.
THEY WERE DUBBED FOR THE
ENGLISH VERSION OF THE FILM.
4.
Vietnamese boy draws - Music -
shooting down of US plane on
fence
5. Missile take-off
6. Vietnamese boy drawing
7.
US pilot with oxygen mask in cockpit
Printed title: DEFA-Gruppe Heynowski &
Scheumann
a.
Closes cockpit
Printed title: PILOTS
b. Turn fade-in US pilot in prison outfit walks down path Printed title: IN PYJAMAs
8. Fade-in: Vietnamses boy drawing
8a. Stand copy Printed title: 4 THE THUNDERCHIEFS
9. Turn fade-in Commentary: Commander James Mulligan - on photo:
10. Deck of aircraft squadron commander on the carrier aircraft carrier 'Enterprise'.
11.
Photo: Commander James Bond
Stockdale -
12.
Deck of aircraft squadron commander on the
carrier aircraft carrier 'Oriskany'.
13. Photo: Colonel Norman C. Gaddis -
14.
Thunderchief in flight squadron commander at Ta Khli
air base
15.
Photo: Lt. Colonel Gordon Albert
Larson -
16.
Plane take-off 338th Fighter Squadron at
Korat.
17.
Photo: Colonel Edward B. Burdett -
18.
Thuderchief in flight He was also a squadron
commander at Korat
19.
Photo: Colonel John P. Flynn -
20.
Plane on runway Squadron Commander at Camran
Airbase
21.
Photo: Commander James P. Mehl, he
also -
22.
Deck of aircraft commanded a squadron on an
carrier aircraft carrier
23.
Photo of grave: Colonel Nelson Villiam
Humphrey - deceased since 20
July 1966 - was also -
24.
Air base squadron commander of the Air
Force here in Da Nang, South
Vietnam.
25.
Risner walks down Colonel Robinson Risner: the
gravel path most famous Squadron
Commander among those shot
down so far. He was chosen to
celebrate a prominent event
in American aviation history:
26.
Photo: Lindergh with In 1927 Charles A. Lindbergh
his plane
27. Photo: flew the first Non-Stop- Lindbergh's plane in Flight across the Atlantic flight Ocean
28. Photo: in his "Spirit of St. Louis" Lindbergh's plane after in 33 « hours. landing
29.
Photo: Risner's plane 30 years later Robinson
in Paris Risner flew the same distance
in his Super Sabre in 6 hours
and 38 minutes.
30.
Photo: Lindbergh and his A famous flyer in 1927:
Lindbergh. Charles A. plane
30a. Photo insert: A famous flyer in 1957: Risner and his plane Robinson Risner
31.
Risner walks down Colonel Risner is also
gravel path the holder of other
U.S. aviation records.
32.
Facsimile - In 1957 the World News
Name is underlined Service "Facts on File"
listed the famous name twice.
33.
Risner walks down Author's We were not the first film
gravel path Commentary: team to speak to the Colonel.
34.
Da Nang Airport - An American film team of NBC
Risner in his plane interviewed the famous
commander for the 67th
Tactical Squadron in Da Nang.
At that time Risner gave a
sober and matter of fact
evaluation of the
Vietnamese air defence.
Risner: Well actually the fire that
you see is in the minority, I
would suppose. It's mostly
the stuff you don't see that
gets you. You could
see the heavy anti-aircraft
automatic fire. Sometimes you
can see tracers from the
lighter weapons, but its some
of the stuff that have no
tracers and no anti-aircraft
bursts that get to you.
35.
Risner walks down Commentary: The famous pilot was also put
gravel path on the cover of the cover
page of the largest US News
Magazine.
36.
Cover-page - Music -
with Risner
37.
Zoom to writing "Who's fighting in Vietnam -
a gallery of American
combatants."
38.
Rapid reverse, Author's This is how WE met him -
Risner with helmet again
in scene
39. Fade-over to Risner as prisoner bare-headed
40.
Fade-back to Risner with helmet This is how he's known to
American: a Thunderchief.
41.
Helmet The Thunderchief's proud
ornament. Our Vietnamese
friends gave it to us as a
souvenir.
42.
Zoom to "Fighting Commentary: The coat of arms of Risner
Cock" symbol and his pilots: A "Fighting
Cock" symbol
43.
Risner declares: X: You commanded the 67th
Tactical Fighter Squadron at
Korat, Thailand. Is that
correct?
Risner: Yes, that's correct.
X: How many airplanes are
assigned to such a squadron?
Risner: Ah, they vary from 18 to 25.
My squadron was 18.
X: Colonel, you are a man with
many years of experience; and
even your assignment here in
Asia represents in principle
nothing new for you.
Risner: I, I was, I paraticipated in
the Korea action as well.
X: Have you been awarded any
decorations during your
military career?
Risner: I received awards, the Air
Medal and the Distinguished
Flying Cross for action in
Korea.
X: As far as I know the
Distinguished Flying Cross is
one of the highest
decorations awarded a pilot
in the Air Force.
Risner: Ah, it, it is fairly high.
There are about three more
above that. I, I was awarded
the Distinguished Flying
Cross for ah, my part in
shooting down MiGs, Mig
airplanes in Korea and the
Air Medals for, ah,
participating in a certain
number of missions.
X: That means you must have been
a very successful pilot in
Korea?
Risner: I was very fortunate, yes.
X: Can this luck be expressed in
figures?
Risner: Well, I believe, ah, I
believe very much, very
deeply in God. I think God
blessed me and helped me and
.... Perhaps you mean how
many MiGs did I shoot down?
X: Yes, please.
Risner: Yes, eight.
X: Have you heard anything about
your buddy Lt. Colonel
Kassler? Do you know him?
Risner: I know a Major Kassler, I
believe. I am sure of his
rank, but I think one that I
am acquainted with is Major
Kassler. Yes, I am acquainted
with him.
44.
Photo montage Commentary: Kassler, now a Lieutenant
Risner and Kassler Colonel, is considered a
Korean hero in the Air Force
just ast Risner.
45.
Risner declares: X: Do you know anything of his
present condition.... of his
whereabouts?
Risner: I do know that he is a
captive here in North
Vietnam, that he was shot
down and captured.
46.
Photos: Commentary: Yes! The prominent Air
Kassler Force expert Kassler
47.
Vietnamese pilot was also brought down by this
Vietnamese pilot of a Soviet
MiG.
48.
Risner declares: X: Colonel, you didn't command
your 67th Tactical Fighter
Squadron very long, because
you have been here for 2
years already. How many
people did you lose before
your capture?
Risner: Yes, I think, it's well known
here that, ah, four more of
my unit is also captives
here.
X: Was that the normal
percentage during your
command....five losses?
Risner: Ah, at the time that I was
shot down, the second time,
our losses were running a
little higher than the
others.
X: If I understand you
correctly, you have been shot
down twice.
Risner: Yes, yes, I was shot down
once before on an attack on a
radar site. The North
vietnamese defence forces
shot me down and I had to
bail out once before and I
bailed out at sea and was
recovered by friendly -
by my own forces.
49.
Base in Thialand Commentary: During Commander Risner's
time the "Fighting Cocks"
were stationed at this air
base in Thailand.
50.
Trick: 18 plane silouettes According to his own figures
of Thunderchief type his squadron had 18
"Thunderchief" aircraft.
51.
Risner Again according to Risner's
Photo fades in figures in 1965 -
52.
Trick: 4 planes jump one - two - three - four
out of scene "Fighting Cocks" had already
been shot out of the sky.
53.
Pilot in aircraft Squadron Commander Risner
himself had to be fished out
of the water once before.
54.
Thunderchief take-off With this new "Thunderchief",
the chief of the fighting
cocks kept flying. Until he
was irrevocably knocked out
55.
Flak firing by 20-millimeter flak during
his 44th mission.
56.
Trick: (see shot 52): The fifth and sixth plane
5th and 6th plane of the "Fighting Cocks" in
jump from scene 1965 were used up then by
their commander.
56a.
New Risner photo fades Risner has been in the
under silhouettes "Hilton-Hanoi" for
over two years.
56b.
Trick: all planes dissapear, And if the "Fighting Cocks"
one after another met the same fate in the
years following 1965, then
today one of Risner's men are
still flying.
57.
Army Museum in Hanoi - This uniform too was once
pan from pilots issue to shell worn by a "Fighting
Cock"; Major Ronald E. Byrne
followed Squadron Commander
Risner into captivity -
thanks to a Soviet
anti-aircraft shell which was
once contained in this
casing.
58.
Photo: Willard on ox-cart And the photo of this man in
his sorry vechicle has gone
around the world by now.
It has great symbolic value:
for Major Gordon S. Willard
58a.
Zoom to helmet too was once a "Fighting Cock".
59.
Risner declares: X: What do you, as an officer
with years of experience,
think about the fact that
here in South East Asia the
strong military power of the
United States and a
comparatively small people
have been facing one another
for years now, and that the
large military machine of the
United States has not been
able to book decisive victory
for itself in these
hostilities?
Risner: Ah, I don't quite understand
the questions. Ah, could you
add to it a little bit to
enlarge on it?
X: I want to get at the moral
factor of this struggle. What
do you think about the will
and the strength of the
people here to resist?
Risner: I, I believe very definitely
that every people of every
land not only have the right
but the obligation to defend
their country with all means
possible.
X: Colonel, I ask you to please
explain for us your own
opinion of the value of
personal freedom.
Risner: I think personal freedom is
necessary to all life, I
think it's worth everything,
and I believe that personal
freedom also extends to
nations' freedom as well.
X: Does a large nation have the
right to force its will on a
small nation which wishes to
decide itself on its way of
life?
Risner: Ah, all nations, it is my
opinion that all nations have
the right to
self-determination and no
nation, simply because of its
power or strength, has the
right to impose their will
upon another nation.
X: Colonel Risner, I wish to
point out that there is a
crass discrepancey between
your opinion and the fact of
your presence here in South
East Asia. If you are of
the opinion that every nation
has the right to
self-determination then I
fail to understand how you
can attempt to bomb North
Vietnam "back into the stone
age", as one of your superior
officers expressed it. How do
you explain this discrepancy?
Risner: Well, of course, as a
military man I can't
explain political issues. I
can only tell you my personal
feelings and give you my
opinions, as far as my
limited knowledge goes I
believe that all nations do
have the right of self-
determination and that
other nations do not have the
right because of power to
impose their will up on
others. I believe that, as
you have asked about the
reasons for the war in North
Vietnam and South Vietnam, I
think that these have fallen
short of what is supposed to
be their objective, in other
words, t he bombing of North
Vietnam appears to have only
increased the determination
of the North Vietnamese
people and the fighting in
South Vietnam has also grown
stronger, so I would say that
the hoped-for objective had
not been reached. It appears
that this is caused by the
Vietnamese people's
determination to reunify
their country and, as I said
before, their right to
self-determination.
X: Do you see any chance
whatsoever for the United
States of America to decide
the outcome of this war by
military force?
Risner: Ah, as I said, the, the air
attacks against North
Vietnam, and of course you
understand, my knowledge is
limited because of my
position, but it appears from
a, ah, that the fighting only
grows more determined in
North Vietnam and I do
believe that eventually, that
we must return to the Geneva
Co nventions in order to
settle this instead of
bombing North Vietnam.
X: A very direct question,
Colonel. According
to existing rules of the Code
of Conduct, you are committed
to answer a total of only
four questions: Rank, Service
Number, Name, and Date of
Birth. We have spoken here in
detail with one another. How
does this conform with your
pledge to silence? Isn't it
so that in our talk you have
violated your directives?
Risner: Yes, I definitely have. I
have broken the rules of the
Code of Conduct and other
things that I have been
taught to respect and obey.
However my situation here is
not one that I had ever
anticipated, and I might say
I've been unable to do those
things which I always thought
I could and do.
X: Colonel Risner, all of us
here in this room
persipiring, so if you like,
make use of your towel. The
temperature is well over a
hundred degrees and we have a
very high humidity. Anyone
seeing this scene could get
the impression you have
broken out in a cold sweat.
59a.
Risner wipes sweat Risner: No, it's nothing like that.
60.
Title with Risner Commentary: The famous chief of the
Fade-over to "Fighting Cocks" has become,
in two years of captivity -
61.
Risner as prisoner a thoughtful man. This has
been a period which appear as
symbols of power and
splendor.
62.
Pilots in cockpits At their bases, the
Thunderchiefs still appear as
symbols of power and
splendor.
63.
Helmet, shot into helmet A look INSIDE the shining
helmets reveals, however, a
shocking measure of
indifference.
64.
Alvarez declares: X: Lieutenant Alvarez, have you
taken an interest in politics
during your life-time?
Alvarez: An no, I have never had a
great interest in politics,
no.
X: What are your personal
interests? Do you have
hobbies, or is flying your
main interest in life?
Alvarez: Yes, flying and ah, I like
water sports, swimming. I
like all sports football,
baseball, basketball. I like
sports very well.
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